going veg
July 17, 2006 by thinking girl
I have finally made the decision to become vegetarian. I have been flirting around with the idea for several years, since my teens, but I have always thought that becoming vegetarian would be something that would make my life more difficult, that it would be complicated. I have gone through phases of not eating certain things, red meat being a major one, but I have always ended up back in the realm of the carnivore.
But lately, I have been feeling gross about eating meat. The past couple of years I have felt extremely guilty about wasting any morsel of meat - I’ve actually probably eaten more meat than ever for guilt of wasting the flesh of the animal that died to be my dinner. I’ve also found that eating meat has become just something I do, not because I particularly enjoy it, but because it was easy. More and more I am wondering why it is that humans should have such absolute use of animals to the extent of torturing and killing them for our food. I am also increasingly concerned about the environment, and a vegetarian diet is much more eco-friendly than one that contains meat.
Not long ago, I began looking into what becoming vegetarian would cost me in terms of time and energy. Just as I was thinking about this, I discovered that Mike, one of my regular visiters here is vegetarian. I asked him about it, and he gave me a couple of web resources to check out. Then I looked up onto my tallest bookshelf and remembered a book I bought almost 10 years ago called, aptly, “Becoming Vegetarian.” I took the time to read through it, and as it happens, there is no reason why being vegetarian should take up any more of my time or energy - and it might even give me more of both! So, I thought about it, and I decided that I would try it out. I began by going to the store and buying some wonderful fresh produce, some tofu, nuts, lentils, rice, beans, peas, fruit, berries, and lots of other great items like vegetable stock, almond butter, and prepared hummus. I decided that I don’t have an ethical problem with eating animal products at this time, so long as the animals are raised on free range farms, so I will continue to eat eggs and some milk products, although this will take a bit of effort to find milk products that are not typical dairy cow products. Those poor cows that never see the light of day!
I have been enjoying cooking vegetarian meals the past few days, and I am very happy with my decision. The one thing that I am concerned about is sushi! I do enjoy sushi every once in a while, and I also like cooking with salmon. I know that some vegetarians do incorporate fish into their diets… but I’m not sure the justification for that from an ethical perspective. Does anyone else know more? I wouldn’t consider someone who ate fish five nights a week a vegetarian! - but what about once in a while? Can a vegetarian cheat a little bit here and there? Like at Christmas? I may not be able to resist a couple slices of turkey at Christmas dinner! How do vegetarians manage with traditional holiday meals?
Anyway, the more I discover about vegetarianism, the more I will post about it. I will likely also post some recipes that I find along the way. Wish me luck!
Congrats!
A friend of mine (well, she was until recently, but that’s another story) is one of those that incorporates fish in their diet. She had a hard time trying to justify it from an ethical point of view, especially after her best friend explained how most fish were “harvested” so I think she just chose not to try anymore (to justify it) and just live with it. (I know, kind of a cop-up.) And, sometimes, she cheats, but rarely. (And she makes the best salads and mushroom burgers). I think, for her, it’s more a matter of health than ethics.
I another of my vegetarian friends, but if someone invited him for dinner and their was meat, he would eat it. He would, however, bring tofu to a bbq. (Funny story, his girlfriend at the time was vegetarian by default: her parents were, her boyfriend was, and so was her roommate, so she never learn to cook or relish meat).
I’ve never been a big fan of meat, and hanging out with vegetarians and vegans made me appreciate a lot of what that lifestyle choice can bring. I still eat meat from time to time, but most of my diet doesn’t include it. And I don’t miss it. It just gives me a particular perspective on my own culture where, for many, meals must always include meat.
Sorry, gotta have meat. Bet you’re surprised.
As for the ethical considerations for becoming a vegetarian, could you elaborate? Don’t animals eat other animals all the time? So what makes it wrong if humans do so? I think I object to your term “absolute use” here.
One thing I can see being a problem is not necessarily that we raise and eat animals, but how we do so. I think it’s entriely possible to be an ethical meat-eater. But it’s probably difficult to figure out if that meat from the grocery store was locally produced, etc. Fortunately, I’m living in Honduras, in the beef and dairy centre of the country, no less. So there’s no doubt where my meat has come from—probably from the guy down the road!
good for you!
there is another book out there - the gradual vegetarian - that is good for transitioning
let me know if i can help…
Good stuff, good stuff. I have been vegetarian for a year and a half now, the environmental issues connected to it finally persuading me it was the right thing to do. It’s pretty easy to do really- veganism is much more difficult, but it is fairly easy to avoid meat. Except in France, where I don’t think a single vegetarian exists……
p.s.
remember - there is no cheating…
whatever you eat or don’t eat is your decision…
it is not as though we vegetarians are a cult - whose rules must be followed stringently…
there are any number of alternatives for holidays - tofurkey, the unturkey, etc… are processed to have the look/feel/somewhat the taste of meat…
there is also tofu and tempeh and seitan - one thing i have found is that it is often the texture and seasoning that i crave about meat - not the meat itself - so spaghetti with textured vegetable protein - or bbq’d seitan fits the bill
my suggestion, find a shop that caters to vegetarians and you’ll be suprised at all the choices - also - check out “ethnic” cook books - indian, middleeastern, etc…
thanks guys!
yeah, Matthew, I’m not surprised! As far as questions of ethics, mainly I object to the treatment of animals who are used for human food production. However, I am also concerned about other conscious and sentient beings with whom we share our planet. We normally draw lines in what types of animals we eat. For example, most of us in the west balk at the idea of eating dog, horse, and cat. But why? I listened to a program on CBC last week about international trading of bush meat - meat not approved for eating in the west being smuggled across borders in suitcases etc. from mainly African countries as some sort of delicacy for westerners to try - anyway, they were talking about drawing the line at eating primates. But why? If it’s ok to eat one kind of animal, why should it not be ok to eat another? (Hence my question about fish and seafood… I’d feel better if I thought that they couldn’t feel pain or something!) Just because they don’t have high intelligence? Pigs are super-smart, and we eat them, so where do we draw the line? In general, I guess I object to the disrespectful arrogant way that humans roam around this planet, using whatever resources we feel like using - including, and almost especially, animals. And as for the point that animals eat each other… yes, this is true. AFter thinking about that point for much of the day, I figure that because animals lack rationality, we can say “They don’t know any better, they are only moving on their impulses.” But, as humans, we do have rationality… so we do know better. Tough stance, perhaps, but there it is.
thanks Mike, I’ll check to see if my library has that book you mentioned. And thanks for the support! I’ll give some consideration to the whole seafood thing. Maybe some research into the sentience of fish might help me…
i’ve heard the argument that fish don’t feel pain or aren’t really sentient…- but i don’t buy it - not sure where that kind of thinking leads - i.e. would i then eat a particularly dumb cow?!
that being said, if you chose to eat seafood, it is still a better diet environmentally, better for you and causing less suffering….
i agree the comment about veganism - it is an ideal, but it very difficult in practice - esp. for me given the rest of my family is not vegetarian…
Great idea,,,but i think i need time to become one…the only dish i can cook is Chicken curry (kerala countryside style)…
I was vegetarien when I was kid. I was forced to eat meat…it ain’t my fault..
Laughs
Oops! I’m in the wrong comment section.
“the only dish i can cook is Chicken curry”
Just change the chicken to tofu
As to fish not feeling pain: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2983045.stm
Hmm, I don’t think different cultures choose what they eat based on the perceived intelligence of the animal. Isn’t it more a consequence of their environment? Certain animals exist in certain places, and nowhere else. So you work with what you got. There are also some cultural traditions that might dictate what’s OK to eat, and how. Have you read Guns, Germs, And Steel, yet?
As for the “humans have rationality” angle… I dunno. Humans are still animals, and rational or not, we gotta eat. You can be the most rational being on the planet, but at the end of the day you still need your vitamins and minerals. I just don’t buy the “humans should be better than this” argument. Maybe someday technology will reach a point where our sustenance can be gained from a single pill, then all our ethical problems about eating will go away!
Also, here’s an interesting and ironic article regarding soy production in the Amazon.
Eating the Amazon: The fight to curb corporate destruction
Looks like we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t…
Oh, quorn is excellent, by the way, a lot of their meat replacement things actually taste rather nice, as long as you put a sauce. Avoid linda mccartney products like the plague, however. That stuff is nasty…….
I swear by chickpeas. Mmmmm chickpeas…. humus and cucumber sandwiches are awesome….
You are becoming very popular! I’m glad to see everyone reconizing your talent for intelligent conversation. & your new blog is spiffy & sophisticated, too.
Matthew said: “Humans are still animals, and rational or not, we gotta eat. You can be the most rational being on the planet, but at the end of the day you still need your vitamins and minerals.”
M, You don’t buy my “humans are rational” argument, I don’t buy your “humans are animals” angle. Humans have been overcoming our own nature for a long time now. Gone are the days when we completely give in to our animal instincts. And as far as getting all the necessary vitamins and minerals, the vegetarian diet is a much, much healthier way to get those vitamins and minerals. There is no need to eat animal flesh to get all the nutrients we need.
Too bad about the soy agriculture taking over the rainforest. Human greed in the form of capitalism simply knows no bounds. Now I have to concerned about where my soy is grown? Yikes.
I haven’t read GG&S yet. When would I ever have the time to read all that I want to read? I barely have time to keep up with the comments on my blog!
Mt K - thanks for the tips. I also love chickpeas. Yummy. We don’t have linda mccartney products here. I likely wouldn’t try ‘em if we did!
Marc Andre - thanks for the link. OK, seafood is going to take some serious consideration.
Mike - I’m not sure that eating fish is better environmentally. Most commercial fishing vessels use trawling methods that rip apart the ocean floor. Hook and line fishing is the most ethical, but it’s hard to find fish caught this way, even here on the Atlantic ocean, because the commercial fishing boats are dragging everything from the bottom and not leaving much behind. It’s nasty. Farmed fish is better for the environment, but not really great in terms of bacterial count. It’s a hard balance. But, I have to give it some thought.
Today I felt like I didn’t have much energy. I ate salmon for supper and I feel a bit better. Maybe I was just tired, but…. I think it will take me some time to get used to the changes in my digestion and metabolism. I had a yummy thing with my salmon (which was marinated in lime juice and ginger and served on a bed of sauteed leeks, by the way) - broiled eggplant brusheed with olive oil and sprinkled with salt, pepper, and parmesan cheese! It was great!
thanks L>T! glad you like the new spot, and thanks for being a cheerleader!
what i meant to say is that a diet that contained no meat and some seafood is better environmentally that the typical western diet of red meat, chicken, pork, etc… in other words, it might not be the ideal, but if one eliminates red meat, etc… they are still likely doing the environment a favor…the environmental cost of beef is massive…
p.s. - re: the notion that as humans are animals and it is appropriate for an animal to eat another animal - as an animal has a right to live
well, humans are animals with the unique ability to shape their environment… someimes for the good, sometimes for the bad (as someone said, humans are evolutions experiment if an opposable thumb plus a large cortex can work…
as i’ve written before, so little of what humans do is “natural” from an animalistic perspective…i.e. our early ancestors lived in a vary different way than we do - unlikely that say a chimp lives much differently today than it did thousands of years ago…
so humanity does have a right to feed itself - but as with everthing else, we are in the unique position to choose how to do it…it seems reasonable then, to pursue a path that is more compassionate, causes less suffereing and environmental damage - this can be done and still provide sufficient (and tasty) nutrition - so why not…
Sorry, Jenn, but I beg to differ (that’s what you weblog is here for, right?
). “Gone are the days when we completely give in to our animal instincts.” Then how do we explain war, murder, rape, adultery, etc.? I think most things humans do on a daily basis are driven by some instinct that is originally biological or physiological in nature. Old, old habits die hard, as they say. Sure, it gets muddied when you add language, culture, and “rational” thought, but ultimately humans are animals, and the sooner we can admit that to ourselves the better. And I’m sorry this comment has nothing to do with vegetarianism. 
but that’s the point, matthew…
all the examples you have given of humanity giving in to our “animal instincts” are behaviors that any reasonable person would object to…
sure - humans may do all these acts - but we recognize we ought not to…
Matthew, I think the operative word in TG’s comment is “completely”. Of course we’re still in many important ways driven by our biology, but in a lot of things, culture plays a more important part. Take for instance the two castes in India who are vegetarian (to come back to the subject at hand).
Hi TG,
A buddy of mine, veggo-person, said that he doesn’t like to eat anything that has eyes or anything that had a mother. Kind of funny, but at the same time this summed up his methods and madness.
Another friend said that she believed that eating animals left a ‘residue of the aminal’s life’ upon hers which, she felt in turn left a ‘mark’ on her consciousness.
Many veggo buddies, and time myself as veggie-muncher, make note that they become clearer (in the head and heart) when not eating animals.
Congrats, by the way.
D
thanks D.
Interesting way of looking at things, thanks for passing along the sentiments of your friends. I do think there’s something to karma (even if just an energy recycling), I’m rather fascinated by the concept, and I find it hard to believe that animals don’t count morally in the cycle of life.
Clearer in head and heart. I like that. So far, so good. I’m enjoying going veg!
Mike, we object to these acts but we still perform them. So tell me that human beings are rational.
Actually, the reason soy products are eating up the rainforest, I believe, is ’cause they’re used to feed all the critters we eat…..
what’s your point, matthew?
no one said we are always rational or moral, but that ought be the goal, right?
[...] so, many of you know that i love to cook. and bake too. since becoming vegetarian, I’ve been doing a lot more cooking so I can ensure I get all the nutrients I’m supposed to have each day. I love cookbooks for inspiration, but mostly, I make things up. I thought I’d start sharing some of my “recipes” - which term I use very loosely as I rarely measure anything! This is what I made for supper today: [...]
First and foremost, after working as a grocer, fast food associate, deli worker, and a few other jobs, I have just lost all appreciation and appetite for meat, fish, eggs, and whatever else that is animal derived, with the exception of organic, local milk products derived from cows who come from farms that to this day still practice husbandry and open fields. And honey, because the bees are not hurt while honey is harvested, lol ^_^. Plus, as a Vaishnava Hindu, I believe different foods have either a positive, negative, or restless effect on the body, so most veggies, fruits, and milk are considered sattvic. or sentient, meaning they have good effects on the body.
thanks for the input, Daijinryuu. Your last point reminds me of ayurveda, which I’ve studied bits and pieces of over the years. Am I on the right track?
Ayurveda does teach that different doshas can have some foods but should avoid others. Yoga teaches the same thing, but for people in general.
Hi Thinking Girl -
I’m just making my way through some of your archives.
I recently decide to go veg - sort of. I finally settled on pesco-vegetarianism. I talked about how I arrived at my conclusion at my old blog here and here, if you’re interested.
Best,
Juno
In regard to how vegetarians handle the holiday meals (even though I’m an atheist, I do celebrate a secular Christmas), my family always makes tons of non-meat dishes that are delicious. Don’t get me wrong, when I smell that baked ham or roast turkey, I drool like a dog. But there is a restaurant near me called Veggie Heaven, which is basically Asian-vegetarian, and the use mock meats which they buy at a place in Manhattan. I tell ya, you really can’t tell the difference, especially when it’s in a sauce. Even the texture is spot on! We just started using it in some of our veggie dishes. Yum.
You also might be interested in this article from Vegetarian Times, written cogently by a 12 year old. If only I had that presence of mind when I was 12. Oh, well. Better late than never.
Best,
Juno
I was brought up vegetarian for most of my life since i was about 7 years old. When i was about 18 i decided to look into the issue myself really just to assess the validity of the vegetarian issue. My thinking was that if it was invalid then i would start eating meat. What ended up happening was that i assessed this situation and found that i agreed with the arguements for vegetarianism, however i felt that being vegetarian (ie lacto ovo) was inconsistent with the premises for it, thus i became vegan. I stayed that way for seven years.
However, i ended up having kids, and it was very difficult for my wife and i to sustain a lifestyle like that that was so damn expensive. As a family who were very much ‘lower class’ i obviously became fairly class consious. It didnt take a heavy reading of marx to realise that concepts such as ‘fair trade’, ‘veganism’ were only really sustainable to those that had the purchasing power. I mean, (im only going by cities in the UK) if you go to poor areas you will rarely if at all come across with shops selling things like vegan or fair trade etc etc
So ultimately what we have here is a class issue.
Underlying veganism and fair trade etc is an idea that one should live a lifestyle that does not perpetuate oppression. However given the fact that we live in a capitalist system, everything is mediated by the market: including ‘principals’
Thus in order for one to maintain a ‘impact free lifestyle’ one has to have the right income for that which means one has to be well positioned in the class system than others. So what does that mean? Well in order to live a lifestyle that does not rely on on exploitation of others one actually has to rely on the exploitation of those below them on the class system.
Basiclly capitalism is ubiquitous exploitaion and oppression therefore if one can do well enough out of it to live an ‘impact free lifestyle’ they are in reality substituting one form of exploitation for another.
It was when i came to that conclusion that i didnt find it problematic to relax my veganism, to be able to buy cheaper products and thus sustain a better lifestyle for my family.
It’s so true, it’s such a sad fact that one has to be rich even to be ethical these days. For fair trade, fair trade products are bound to be more expensive by definition (sometimes fair trade products can be no more expensive than exploited ones, and it shows how much profits the companies are making…), I suppose it is rather more of a moral obligation for the riches in the rich countries to buy fair trade, as they can do so and they are the ones who are most benefiting from the oppressive economic structure. Not that the poor in the rich countries should be allowed to exploit developing countries (they are still way better off than the poorest in developing countries the fair trade is helping), but they shouldn’t be made feel guilty for not being able to afford the fair trade products.
But I wonder why veganism/vegetarianism is getting expensive now, because I can see no inherent reason that vegetarian lifestyle should be more expensive than meat-eating one, unless you frequent fancy, fashonable organic gourmet vegan delis. If vegetables are more expensive than meats, why is it (it used to be the other way)? Isn’t there any way for the economically disadvantaged to live a life without relying on the oppressive hegemonic structure?
The problem we have is simply down to the fact that capitalism is based on the commodification of everything existing. As soon as there is something that will be of utility it will become a commodity on the market whether directly or indirectly.
Take air for example, its something that is by definition ‘common’ however, in order to have good quality air away from pollution one needs to live in a good area: an expensive area.
Fair trade, to me is a luxury market that offers no real solution to the problems of the people it serves to help. It is only because people in rich countries make surplus income that a market like that can be sustained. And it is only due to the wealth differentials created by capitalism that such surplus incomes come into place which is of course the very thing that causes the problems that fair trade allegedly addresses.
And just from a pragmatic point of view, given the fact that fair trade is a luxury market, if there is any recessions or whatever that affect the surplus incomes of the rich folks then they will immediately substitute (economics 101) thier fancy coffee for good old nescafe and where does this leave our friends in the south that are allegedly being empowered by such a market.
The market that fair trade serves ultimately is guilt market, if a person is buying cofee or whatever from some indiginous tribe from ‘wherever’ (im not meaning that literally im merely making a depiction of the thought process of the typical purchaser of such products) then their egalitarian sensibilitys are given a hit and they can feel ok about thier privledged exsistance.
It shouldn’t really be, although vegetarianism can quite often be a culinary cultural thing of the middle classes and most working class people will not be aquainted with how to make thier own home made seitan with wheat and water (which takes effing hours BTW). So theres that problem.
More specifically with my family it came about down to the fact that my daughter when she was very young went through a faze of eating a very limited range of things. We relied on this vegan shop in our part of the city for the vegan yoghurt that she ate a lot of and was a significant part of her diet. Our daughter was already quite skinny and was born quite small so as you can imagine it was quite a worry. Anyhow, this vegan shop went bust (because it was run as a co-operative ie ran counter to capitalist principals in a capitalist society and thus met its inevitable fate) and the only way we could get this yoghurt stuff was to go to the other side of the city to get it. Which meant a bus journey, which meant bus fares, and us being plebs on welfare meant that this was not viable. So we were confronted with the choice of having our daughter have an even smaller range of foods, or going to the local equivalent of walmart and getting normal yoghurts at a much lower price.
Guess which choice we made.
thanks for reviving this discussion, folks.
I’ve been thinking it was almost a year since I made the change - I’ve really had an enjoyable year. At first, I gained some weight, because I was eating way too many carbs in order to feel full. Then I learned how to combine foods properly for a more balanced meal and to avoid glycemic spikes, and cut way way down on my starchy/sugary carb intake, and I’ve been steadily losing weight. This has been a good process for me as I’ve learned a lot about how I use food emotionally and what sort of physiological reaction that causes.
I’ve not eaten fish in ages, the only time I do now is if I go out to eat with friends and there’s no vegetarian option (or if I go for sushi, which I still love!). I don’t buy and cook it anymore for myself. I was not particularly tempted at any of the 3 family holiday dinners that have come along, so that was fine. I’ve discovered all sorts of great meat alternatives that are commercially prepared and packaged, so making some of my old favourites, like chilli and stuffed peppers, is still an option for me. I still eat free-range eggs, as well as some cheese. I try to get two major servings of protein a day - one for sure at breakfast. I’ve learned to think about food in terms of fuel and what it does for my body. I know I need a good serving of both carb and protein in the morning, and I know I need protein mid-day in some form to keep my energy levels up. So far, it’s been interesting and challenging and rewarding to be vegetarian!
I’ve not found that being vegetarian is any more expensive than eating meat. In fact I’d say for me it’s probably less expensive. I buy my legumes and most of my grains dried at the Bulk Barn, the best most cheapest place ever, and my spices there too (except fresh ones). I’ve always eaten lots of fresh veggies and fruit, so not much change there. I don’t buy much in the way of baked goods at all, just pita bread (I bake my own bread when I want a loaf). I try to buy locally to support my local economy and to reduce my environmental impact. And luckily my grocery store carries a wide variety of free-range and organic animal products like dairy and eggs. Also, I know a lot of people who are vegetarian (and healthy) on a teeny tiny budget, and they are way more into the fair trade and organic lifestyle than I am. Perhaps our city is a bit more accessible for that kind of thing, but I certainly agree that capitalism is a great and evil plague!!!!