the list
August 24, 2006 by thinking girl
MaxJulian over at The FreeSlave asked me what I was looking for in my relationships. (He gave a very full wish list of his ideal mate, and it’s been churning up some talk.)
I hesitate to give a “laundry list” of characteristics or qualities that are too specific, simply because I am trying to keep my mind and heart open. That said, there are some things that are really important to me and I’m not willing to settle for less. Also, Max suggested that putting your desires out to the universe might actually work, so going ahead and asking for what you want is the only way to get it. It’s not too much to ask for! So, with some trepidation, here is the answer to Max’s question, with the disclaimer that this is by no means rigid. I’m not used to writing stuff that’s so personal on this blog! Here goes:
- edit:passionate
- funny (even just sarcastic will do)
- smart
- honest and truthful
- has integrity
- kind
- equality-minded - not racist, classist, sexist, homophobic
- taller than me (I’m 5′9 and I wear heels a lot)
- creative, even artistic would be nice
- stylish - please, no more deck shoes, perpetual sneakers, cowboy boots, or hikers!
- dark hair - and I have a thing for curly-floppy hair…
- handsome - at least to me
- is into hygiene (!)
- lean build - no beer guts - maybe a little bit of muscle…
- relatively smooth, as in hair-free, at least the back!
- Financially secure
- no kids, unless they live in a far-away country, will never call me mommy, and I don’t have to see them or have them in my home for more than a day - or if they’re fully grown, that would be fine.
- doesn’t expect me to have children or raise children
- it would be so nice if he didn’t have any ex-wives… especially crazy ones!
- adventurous spirit
- likes to travel
- generous
- educated (not necessarily formally)
- non-religious - by this I mean not a practicing member or adherent of an organized religion. I’m not totally married to this one, I think I could deal with a buddhist, and I’m fine with spirituality, but organized religion and me don’t mix so well… I just think it’s easier if we’re on the same ideological page.
- health-conscious, non smoker
- fun to be around
- affectionate and attentive
- supportive and helpful if I need it
- independent - and respects my independence
- politically aware
- well-mannered
- good conversationalist - someone I’m not going to get bored talking to
- emotionally/psychologically stable
- enjoys lots of great sex, knows a few tricks, and isn’t afraid of suggestions on how to please me
- two words: size matters
- R-E-S-P-E-C-T for me, for my life, my friends, my family
- compatible with my peeps - if my best friend doesn’t like him, he won’t be around for long.
- loves me for me, doesn’t want me to change - only grow
- doesn’t expect me to be perfect all the time
- dependable
- enjoys a good discussion
- doesn’t expect me to get married, I’m not decided on that patriarchal institution just yet, but isn’t necessarily against it either
- faithful
- mature
- reads. books.
- can be silly
- can be serious
- emotionally available
- is willing to work to make it work. commitment isn’t always easy
- reciprocity
- gentleness of spirit, non-violent
- isn’t addicted to masculinity
- not arrogant - that is the biggest turnoff ever
- is a feminist!
So, nice list huh? Think I’ll find it all?
the important thing about this, for me, is that I am willing to give as much as I get. I’m a pretty great girlfriend - I’m sweet and kind and thoughtful and loving and supportive and affectionate and very caring. But I’m not willing to put up with bullshit. And I’m not willing to put out everything that I do in a relationship without getting back what I want and need. Overall, I just really want someone to KNOW me, and be completely FOR me, who will support me, help me achieve my goals, accept me, and love me unconditionally.
So, in the interest of putting it out to the universe - or at least the blogosphere - this is it! If you know someone who fits the bill, email me immediately! 
Whoa! that list is intimidating.
The truth is when you fall in love(or lust) with someone 3/4th of that stuff goes out the window anyway. Of course in blogosphere we are all hot & sexy.
As much as I would love to help you, I’m afraid if I found that guy, I would want to have him myself :6. Sorry Thinking Girl!
Excellent; but I’m not 5′9″. Damn it!!!
Excellent list! I will have to plagiarize, imitate, or borrow some of these items for mine.
Itart, a lot of what’s on this list is just a clear articulation of basic mental health & stuff, it’s not that scary. I am not convinced love/lust causes it to go away. And one of the reasons I find the blogosphere refreshing is that people tend to be more honest about who they are than they get to be in public and in person!
Thinking girl, I came over from Max’s site.
There are a few things missing in your list, like how would your ideal mate fight you? Conflict is enormous in relationship, but you didn’t address it. You also didn’t address finances, which are the number one reason that folks split.
And you wrote: ” But I’m not willing to put up with bullshit.”
Don’t we all put up with bullshit because what seems like bullshit to you is precious shit to your mate. And your good shit will sometimes be bullshit to your mate. For example, my ex loved to clean. I thought it was a lotta bullshit: a waste of time. But to her, it was the good shit: getting the house good and clean.
Which leads to conflict, which leads to my first question: how will your ideal mate fight?
Another thing: lust does end. Or it largely lessens. So, for a relationship that goes on and on, it’s predicated upon partnership. The primacy of partnership, which is over-the-horizon for young ‘n’ lusty lovers, is what we all should contemplate.
really? you think so?
um - good luck…
lol
huh, that’s an interesting list.
Sometimes I think things like these set us up for dissapointment, what I like to think of as the ‘fairytale’ syndrome. Woman in this society seem to suffer from it quite a bit.
But on the otherhand I totally agree with your friend that you have to put your desires out to the universe, it really is the only way and you have to be specific, which you have done, bravo.
Then on the third hand, lol, there is the saying, ‘life is what happens when your making plans for living’, I like that alot.
Oh and one more saying I love, ‘be careful what you wish for, you just might get it’.
Lastly I can only think back to how I met my fiancee, through what I would call a self proclaimed match maker.
I was a guy getting coffee and stumbled upon a neighbor who was married, we talked congeneally(ms?) enough, and she happened to be out on a girl’s nite out, and said,’hey come over and talk to us’, turns out that out of 4 woman at the table only 1 was single, guess who I am now engaged to, lol. There was no list and if I had a list, she wouldn’t meet it, but here we are planning to get married in hawaii this october. funny how life just seems to happen.
I wish you the best.
Would 5′10″ do?
Seriously, I agree with this idea of a list, like you said, not a “laundry list” but of things that are important. Some of which, depending of what the person has to offer, are negociable. I’m actually establishing those for myself (with a good deal of similarity with yours). Actually, I found that sometimes, our friends are good at pointing out what we look for in someone; and what we shouldn’t look for…
Do relationships fail due to issues of vagueness or clarity - typically?
This isn’t a job description; its a set of standards, hopes, dreams, desires. I do believe that we create our reality. When I’ve intentionally sought something with clear parameters, I’ve received it (lately anyway), or something approaching it. With my list, I do not expect to receive from Santa, everything on my list. But this exercise of it writing down on paper opens a door. Maybe.
There’s always an ideal and then there’s reality. No one is perfect but, sometimes we fall in love with someone who is a combination of many things that on a list, without knowing him or her, may seem either positive or negative. I guess if one is actively looking to find a mate with certain characteristics it’s good to have a criteria. Yet, my personal experience was totally different. I am with someone I never would have imagined being with who only after realizing he was the one for me did I realize he happened to have all the qualities I had on my own mental list. Falling in love so suddenly and with such certainty was such a surprise I had to have Thinking Girl explain what was happening to me!!! Thank the stars for best friends!!!
hey all,
wow, what a great bunch of comments! thanks everyone!
L>T, yeah, part of my hesitation in putting out the list is that I don’t want to drive away potential mates on the basis of items on a list that are not at all set in stone. Well, then I realized - some of those things ARE set in stone for me. Like respect and kindness and honesty and integrity and a sense of humour. so, what’s the shame in saying them out loud? do I really care if I drive away people who are disrespectful, unkjind, dishonest, have no integrity, and are bo fun to be around? NO! And if I can say out loud the things that are set in stone, what harm is there in saying out loud the things that aren’t (like height, Max and Marc Andre!), just in case? But, I do agree that sometimes when you fall in love, much of what you thought you wanted doesn’t really matter so much. And that’s the problem with falling in love - allowing “love” to be a force stronger than you that controls you. I don’t think that love has to be something you cannot control. I don’t want to be swept off my feet and rendered senseless by love. That has been nothing but disaster!
Jess - yeah, I figured! this guy would be a keeper, I think. May you find your version too!
Max - like I said, it’s not all set in stone…. height isn’t THAT big a deal!
Prof - thanks. feel free to use whatever you find helpful in your own search! I agree, I find people can be more honest in cyberspace than in real life sometimes - about some things, anyway.
Hey Holly,
welcome, thanks for coming over.
“financially secure” is indeed on the list. I think it’s best to keep it separate as much as possible. a household account for co-habitating couples is a good idea, and it would be great to be 50/50 with things if possible. But, part of what is nice about having support is having financial support when needed - like if I had an awful job and needed to quit for my mental health, it would be nice to know that my partner had my back for a little while so I could find another job without a lot of stress. I would never ask for anything I wouldn’t be willing to give - in money and in general. But I certainly wouldn’t want to support someone for say, several years unless there was a really good reason, like going to school full time or being unable to work due to a disability or something. And I really really wouldn’t want to justify to my partner every pair of shoes that came through the door! Hell no! that said, it isn’t all that important to me that we make the same amount of money, and I am very generous and like to do nice things for people I love, including making their lives easier if I can, and if money can do that, it’s worth it. Money doesn’t mean a whole lot to me.
Holly, your question about fighting and conflict is a really good one. Thanks for bringing that up. I’ve been in a relatinoship that had a lot of conflict, and it was no fun. neither of us were good at fighting. I think it’s important to never disrespect your partner during a fight - or any time, really. It haunts you when you do. No name calling, as little yelling as possible, and of course no violence. I would even say no swearing, just as a precautionary measure. Swearing seems to lead to raised voices and flares of temper, in my experience. However, I think fighting is also important, because it helps you clarify things and it shows that you are passionate. (That’s one that I forgot to put on the list! I”ll add it!) Just seething about stuff and being passive aggressive is useless.
By No Bullshit, I kind of mean a combination of No Drama and No Disrespect. I mean more like I don’t want to deal with immaturity or broken promises, mixed messages, not saying waht you mean and not meaning what you say, that kind of stuff.
Mike - LOL! Thanks buddy!
Divine G - thanks for sharing your story. Congratulations, and all the best to you and your fiancee.
The thing about all this list stuff is that I still think serendipity is the best, most honest way to meet someone - just by chance, seeing an attraction, taking it from there.
I think you’re right, there is definitely a Hollywood-endorsed fairytale idea of True Love out there, and it is not at all helpful. It is such a ridiculous script, boy meets girl, girl resists, boy persists, etc etc. Give me a break. But yet, romance is such a nice part of life. the deeply ingrained romantic notions of love are still embedded in my brain. I try to shake them out, but it’s tough.
I have doubts about the idea of a soul mate. But yet, I think that I am a person who could happily love one person for the whole rest of my life, if it was the right person! I say this because I don’t really ever get bored of people I find interesting - there is always something else to discover, to learn about one another. Is there one person who was put on this earth just for me? I don’t know - sounds a little fishy to me. But I think there is something to the idea that soul mates are made, not born…
also, I think that love shouldn’t necessarily be thought of as a noun, but as a verb, you know? Not something that happens to you, but something that you do, actively. What do you think about that?
Marc Andre,
establishing boundaries and guidelines is definitely a good thing. Then, you might know when you find what you’re looking for! But, again, making it too narrow could mean overlooking something special that’s staring you right in the face. it’s a fine balance. and I think you’re right, friends are important in love!!! because when you’re in it, they can think for you, and help you realize patterns you never knew you had that aren’t any good for you, or even just patterns in general. I was out one night with a group of girlfriends and one of them said she didn’t think she had a “type”. I said, “oh yes you do!” she had no idea that there were striking similarities between the guys she had dated. (all gregarious, funny, life-of-the-party kinds of guys.)
MaxJ: I like what you say about your list. I feel the same.
I like your question: do relationships fail because of clarity or vagueness? Interesting point. I think for me, it’s been a little bit of both. when it’s been too vague, it’s made me feel antsy and anxious and insecure and vulnerable. when it’s been too clear, it’s been a simple division of needs and desires that has been irreconcilable. But, I think clarity is better, for me. I would rather know where I stand than always be guessing.
Angel: yes, thank god for best friends! Love to you and M!
“soul mates are made, not born” I love that!
Thinking girl wrote, “I think fighting is also important, because it helps you clarify things.”
Thinking girl, I once wrote a book about fighting and in your sentence that I just quoted, you basically said everything that I took tens of thousands of words to say. Conflict is where you see and are seen. So few fight well. As you noted, so many avoid a fine fight by passive-aggression. And so many dish out damage, rather than truth, in conflict. So few fight well that it’s no wonder so few can fight well: we just don’t have enough good role models for skilled conflict to spread.
Hey, thinking girl, you’re generous in your responses. I like that in a blogger. It feels more like a chat over coffee.
Thanks Marc Andre! I liked that too, when I saw it fly out from my little fingers hitting the keys!
Holly, a whole book? Wow, that’s impressive! I would love to write a book one day. Maybe I’ll just compile my blog posts together, LOL!
generous in my responses - thanks, I like that. I just find my commenters here stimulate so much thought in me and help me develop insights, it’s great to get them out and expressed and continue the dialogue - particularly when clarification is needed.
shouldn’t there be a way to chat with people live on blog threads? I think that would be a great idea… see who was online, chat about a post, interact directly, etc. I’m sure someone’s thought of this already, but I like the idea!
We never know what clicks until it clicks and then we are in love.
Holly, is your book something we can find in the local bookstore? If so, what is it called?
Mister P,
Thanks so much for asking. It’s “Pumpkin Town” and it just went on sale and should be available just about everywhere! An e-pal went to her local library to take a look. All 12 of their copies were out and she was # 17 on the wait list. As Kirkus, the book review people wrote, it’s a “fun fable” with “3-dimensional pop.”
I also have a dreadfully serious book coming out this fall and my first novel next spring, but “Pumpkin Town” is lots of fun for kids and folks that like Picasso/Nightmare Before Christmas artistic fusions!
xoxo,
Holly C.
“Love is a verb” is for realz.
Does your love enlarge HOW you love your family and community? Does it cause you to bless those around you with the joy that you feel?
Have you ever seen the “lover” who is nasty, cruel, mean, but deeply in love with their partner? There’s the hoarded, stingy kind of (non) love between two ‘half-people’ and then there’s the abundant, transcendent love that enlarges the autonomous pair who pollinate all around them with their joy in discovering each other.
The latter is the only kind of love I’m interested in. The former is that ‘Ronald Reagan/Nancy Davis, wheelchair-bound, shut-in, fake love’ that shuts out everyone but the two love addicts who’ll never get enough of each other, and never have enough to truly share with their community.
TG, FYI, I’m only 5′8′. Is that a dealbreaker?
Holly,
congratulations! I’ll look for your book next time I’m at my local store.
Julian,
yes, I know what you mean, about those mean and nasty lovers, who only seem to love each other and want to drink up every drop of that themselves instead of sharing it and allowing that experience to then deepend their love of one another. YUCK.
I think love is about more than that. “abundant, transcendant love that enlarges the autonomous paor who pollinate all around them with their joy” - beautiful. (I think this is an apt description of my best friend Angel who commented above and her fiance. their love is important to me, in a weird way, because they take their love to the world. It’s a lovely thing to see.)
no, I don’t think height is a dealbreaker for me. I do have some dealbreakers, though. Wanna hear?
dealbreakers? Let me guess, not liking cats?
I wanna know!!!!!!!!!!!
Alright, I’ll tell you.
Dealbreakers are not pet peeves. They are not trivial. They are things that would necessitate either the end of a relationship or a reason not to get into one with said person. (LOL Marc Andre!)
1. Adultery. I couldn’t forgive and forget if my partner cheated on me. It would eat me up inside. The relationship would be forever altered, and not in a good way.
2. Lying. I know that everyone lies a little bit here and there. That’s not what I’m talking about. I mean big lies, lies about who you are. Incompatibility between who you say you are and who you really are is not acceptable.
3. Bad sex. Mean, violent, S&M, inconsiderate, twisted, extremely kinky sexual behaviour isn’t for me. IF that’s what he needs, he’s bound to stray from the relationship. I’m all for being adventurous, but some things I simply am not interested in. This one includes repeated requests/pressure to do something I don’t want to do.
4. Crime. Save for traffic violations.
5. Violence. If I were to become the victim of violence in a relatinoship, the relationship would end. This includes physical, emotional, and psychological abuse.
6. Prostitution/pornography. I couldn’t be with someone who has bought sex, either before or during the relationship. I couldn’t be with someone who used pornography during our relationship. If I found a secret stash, it would be removed and disposed of and he would be out on his ass.
7. Inhumanity. If my guy was nice to me but a complete prick to other people, or animals, that’s a dealbreaker.
8. Prejudice. Racism, sexism, heterosexism, classism, ableism… dealbreakers all.
9. Addiction. I’ve been there once, I’m not doing it again.
10. Mental Illness. Brutal honesty? I don’t think I could handle someone with a serious mental illness.
11. Non-reciprocity. By this, I mean that I couldn’t deal with being taken advantage of. I am very generous and kindhearted by nature, and it has been my experience that people take advantage of that as much as they can. I’ve learned my lesson.
12. Incompatibility with my peeps. As I said before, my best friend has to like you, or you’re out. For the entire length of the relationship - not just at the beginning when you’re on your best behaviour. All the time. The seal of approval is not final, but ongoing. And if you can’t at least get along with my family, for politeness sake, that’s a problem.
13. Disrespect. OH HELL NO!
14. Disrepect of my fundamental beliefs. Which is kind of what this list is all about. But really, when I believe something deeply I try to live my life according to those principles. If you don’t support that, and act in ways opposite to that, it’s a dealbreaker.
there’s my comprehensive list. You’ll notice nothing like “leaves dirty socks lying around” or “spends too much money” or “doesn’t like romantic comedies”. That stuff is so minor. When it comes down to it, this is the really important stuff.
Beautiful list. I appreciate the clarity very much!
pas de probleme, mon ami. La clarite est tres importante. Je pense que les “dealbreakers” sont importants pour definir les relations. Peut-etre on devrais donner les listes comme la quand on commence une nouvelle relation! Mais, ce n’est pas tres romantique!
Julian, do you speak any French? did you catch any of that?
Translation: not a problem, my friend. Clarity is very important. I think that dealbreakers are important for defining relatinoships. Maybe we should give lists like this when we begin a new relationship! But, that’s not very romantic!
(Marc Andre, how was that? Did I tell you I got an A+ in French? I’m quite pleased with myself!)
Je pense votre Francais c’est bon. Mon Francais c’est d’accord. J’habite a Paris pour trois mois, des Janvier a Mars en 2002. Paris c’est le meilleur ville. Vous comprenez?
Grest list.
Très bon français: A. Je connais des francophones qui font plus d’erreur que toi! (tu permets que je te tutoie?) Continue comme ça!
I was talkint to a friend of mine yesterday who just met someone. She was saying how she pretty much knows what she wants in a boyfirend. When her sister met him she said: “Wow, that one really fits the list!”
As for dealbreakers, along with your list, I would have to add “no curiosity”. I couldn’t be with someone who isn’t open to new things, new discoveries. I know it just wouldn’t work.
J’ai oublié de te demander: quand viens-tu faire un tour à Montréal pour pratiquer ton français (en attendant Paris)?
J:
Oui, je comprends. La Paris! Je n’ai jamais pas voyage a Paris. C’est une tres belle ville. Je veut l’aller un jour.
MA: Merci! Oui, bien sur… “vous” est trop officiel. J’adore Montreal, mais je n’ai pas d’argent pour des vacances.
Je suis pauvre! L’universite est trop chere!
Felicitations a ton amie!
no children?!! :O b-b-but how else are you going to bring more feminists into this world???
ha ha, good one Sunrise. I’ll be content to get my handson them a little later in life.
I like the French words even though I didn’t understand a word of it. Great site.