Feminism Friday - separatism
May 20, 2007 by thinking girl
yup, late again. *sigh*
there comes a point when a movement for social change questions whether it is wise and/or prudent to continue to work within the mainstream system that they are trying to change. this is a question that I find myself asking all the time in regards to my politics, and more and more I feel like moving into the woods and setting up a little commune like in the movie The Village. this isn’t a new urge. in the 1960s and 70s, separatism within the feminist movement was high - particularly in two areas: non-hetero sexuality, and women’s health.
Lesbian separatist communities were strong in some cities in the 70s. There were lesbian-only workplaces, businesses, housing complexes, bars, clubs, and social circles. The tag line at the time was “Feminism is the theory. Lesbianism is the practice.” And, so I have read, there was a strong tie between lesbian feminism and radical feminism - the idea being that relations between men and women would always already be fraught with sexism, and the only way to avoid such sexist relations was to live a male-free life. And this is where the idea that all feminists are lesbians comes from. This way of life was clearly separatism. Some might say that it didn’t work, because these communities did not get uptake from the dominant system. The dominant class scoffed, turned up their noses, joked about, and largely ignored the lesbian feminist movement. No uptake. I’m not sure I would categorize lesbian separatism as a failure because it was not acknowledged by the dominant class, but there certainly wasn’t uptake involved. I’m not sure how strong lesbian separatism still is, but my hope is that it has survived somehow, somewhere, quietly, and is working out great for those who participate.
The women’s health movement, however, was fairly successful in getting uptake. Tired of medicine - a largely male-run and male-oriented field - telling women about their bodies from an outsider perspective and theorizing about women’s bodies without asking for their input, several collectives of women gathered together and began making their own investigations, their own knowledge, about women’s bodies and women’s health, spawning feminist medical textbooks and illustrations such as Our Bodies, Ourselves, and even performing medical procedures such as abortion, like the Jane collective. Here, however, a major difference occurred between the lesbian feminist separatism movement and the women’s health separatism movement: the women’s health movement genderated knowledge that was given uptake. Eventually, medical illustrations began to become more like the feminist drawings, and women’s experiences with their bodies became seen as a source of (phenomenological) knowledge. It’s still not perfect, of course, but there was some degree of the medical community accepting new information from an alternative location. Win one point for separatism.
And this is kind of how I feel lately. I feel like the only way to get to any kind of objective knowledge is to separate from the dominant class and their system. Because you see, the dominant class has an investment in keeping things the way they are. They like having control over knowledge validation processes, and being able to decide what is and is not “true”. It’s a system that works for them; of course they will defend it. And of course, they will try to subjugate the knowledge of the underclasses any way they can. (right now, I think that this is being accomplished most effectively through the media.) So for me, separatism makes sense. generating knowledge from alternative locations is the way to greater objectivity.
And yet, how realistic is it to accomplish? Is it possible to live outside the dominant system? Can this be done? what about the old postmodern hag, relativism?
see, I think it could be done. I think that separatism, at the very least of ideology and knowledge production, is necessary in order to overthrow the dominant system. And I think this can work for feminists, for people of colour, for the disabled, for LGBT, for the poor. And the common goal, of wishing to overthrow the dominant system, can be a uniting force between and across these arbitrarily drawn lines, the ones created by the dominant class in order to divide and conquer.
this is a bit loosey-goosey, but I’d like to toss it out there for some feedback and thoughts. I’d particularly like to hear from those who are not members of the dominant class and who do not make a practice of defending the dominant system. what do you think?
Hmmm. I seem to not be one of those you would particularly like to hear from, but it strikes me that the dominant system should not be seen as a monolith; it is full of tensions and contradictions. It’s also not all bad. I am myself particularly fond of the admittedly problematic and oft-misused ideal of scientific objectivity. The wide gap between ideal and practice in this area can be taken as evidence that the ideal is worthless, merely a cleverly constructed front for quite different dominant values. Alternatively, however, it can be taken as a basis for internal criticism of the dominant system; showing how it fails to live up to its own standards. In this case (and this is not the only such case), I find the latter alternative preferable. Even in cases where I do not endorse either side of a divide between aspects of the dominant paradigm, employing each to attack the other, in order to divide and conquer the dominant class instead of giving it a monopoly on the use of that tactic, strikes me as sensible.
Oh Thinking Girl, I tremble for your future professors in law school - go get ‘em sister!
More on not defending the dominant system later when I’m not supposed to be working!
Sam.
I completely agree with you about the effectiveness of separatism inasmuch as it furthers objectivity.
I have two main criticisms of it, though. The first is that while separatism may be great for those who are separating, it deprives those in the dominant system of their unique voices (unless in the case of uptake, like you explained), making the dominant system even more unpleasant. For example, it makes me so sad when the brightest, most progressive-minded people leave my conservative Ohio town to go live where people are more liberal, because it just keeps this place more ignorant and backward. I can’t argue that it isn’t better for those individuals to leave, but in my opinion, this place suffers a great deal.
My second criticism is that it puts those experiencing multiple oppressions in a bit of a bind. With whom should they separate? It would be wonderful if oppressed groups really could unite under the common goal of overthrowing the dominant system, but that seems to work better in theory than in practice. In fact, that very idea of intersectionality is one of those things that originally drew me to feminism, but unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be as uniting or accepting as I originally thought.
Despite this, I think that separatism is an excellent way to develop new systems that counter the mainstream’s. And you’re absolutely right — that if those new systems have evident worth and catch on, separatism has been successful in improving the dominant culture. Great post. It’s got me thinking.
I’m not sure if this is what you’re really looking for (my comments all day have been about my personal experience and I hope I’ll get away from that eventually at some point in your comments) but I did “move into a little commune.” A lot of the time I was the only straight person there. The place wasn’t about bisexuality, though, that was just coincidence. It was more about, I don’t know, intellectual environmentalist leftwingishness of various sorts.
My experience is that you can’t really completely separate from the mainstream. I mean, I guess you could, if you were independently wealthy and willing to exclude potential newcomers. But in practice, you have to go out into the mainstream to earn money and you have to welcome huge numbers of visitors that you hope will fit in so your group can grow. And those visitors are often surprisingly mainstream for people who want to join a commune.
So I guess what I’m saying is that maybe with a lot of money and a lot of determination and a lot of hyper-cautious isolation, what you’re talking about could work longer term than what we tried to do worked. And it sometimes does — there are thriving intentional communities still around from starting up in the 60s and 70s.
But whether you’re looking for something long-term successful like that, or just a short-term experiment, well, in that case, I have to say it’d be easiest for you to visit/join one of the many communities already in existence that would fit your criteria.
http://www.ic.org/
I think it is a cool idea. The scientist hiding inside me somewhere thinks anything that allows you to experiment and get more data on a subject is a cool idea.
Having a separatist movment form a colony and set up its own society would be a fascinating thing. It would be especially interesting to see how that society does after an extended period of time, over generations. To see how children growing up in that society feel, to see what those children do after growing up and they take over leadership in that society.
I suspect that one would find that after a certain period of time, there would be a lot of similarities in the colony to mainstream society. It would be very interesting to see what those similarities are, as well as what the differences are. Something that I think can get lost in all the various concerns of subgroups (be they sorted by gender, race, sexual orientation, or favorite figure skater) is that there is something all of those groups have in common - they are all made up of human beings. Perhaps there are just some things that are inevitable in any society made of humans because well, we’re human.
If I were a billionaire, I’d be sponsoring all sorts of colonies. My only concern would be that I would not live long enough to tabulate all of the results, but I suppose a few decades is long enough to learn something.
On some days, like after the Dover trial was in the news, I’ve wondered if it wouldn’t be a great thing for atheists to just leave the planet and form a colony somewhere else. But alas, I’m not a billionaire.
Separatism as an experiment to figure out how things would turn out is an interesting notion. There is, however, vast data on the different ways people can organize societies which is routinely ignored by those who insist that “human nature” rules out things that have actually happened; any serious study of history or anthropology will turn up plenty of fascinating examples. So, while more data is always good, more use of data strikes me as probably more important; additional data which has no impact because people ignore such data will, well, have no impact.
TG - if it worked for Lysistrata
*jk*
Could we set up a separatist colony for neocons on the moon so we’ll have a place to send George
Bush et. al.?
Could we bribe Halliburton with the lure of a free defense contract to do so?
(No, just kidding–just had to say that.:))
Actually, I think separatism can be very necessary in the overall scheme of things. I’ll post more on this later.
It just struck me that Ayn Rand’s book Atlas Shrugged is ultimately about a separatist movement for libertarians (or her brand of them, anyway). Not that I would endorse Rand or her views, but it was a fascinating read nonetheless.
This is a really interesting post. Being an eternal optimist, I like to believe that the mainstream system will eventually evolve and separating won’t be necessary. However, until that happens, I recognize the value of living in a seperate community where strong, feminist women or other marginalized groups are the majority.
The more I think about this post, the more I realize that this is exactly what I have been doing for the past few years. I am currently involved in two things that might be looked at as “separatist” activities. The first is roller derby - I’m a member of a one of the new women only leagues and the experience of playing a rough, full contact sport with a bunch of other women has been both challenging and enlightening. I’m also about to complete my Masters in Library Science, which will set me on the path to a career dominated by women. After reading your post, I wonder if these two things are as coincidental as I assumed.
Ultimately, I agree with Tracey’s comment - that the dominant culture misses out on unique voices and challenging views when a minority separates themselves. However, I also think that being able to leave the dominant culture at will and to find occasional refuge in other communities is a necessity for the oppressed, and that doing so will better provide those groups with confidence, the education, and the strength needed to put up a proper fight.
I don’t really see how one can truly remove oneself from mainstream society in that way. For example in order to have a piece of land to have a commune you are legally required to own the land, thus you are still buying into a capitalistic concept of private ownership in order to live a lifestyle that is meant to be different. Also, if one makes a choice of what something is not, so to speak its being defined in contrast to what is…. thus there is the danger of what one whats to build being built on reactionary premises shaped by the very thing that one wishes to remove oneself from.
hey folks, thanks for commenting!
girasophist - thanks, a reasoned comment. you said: “Even in cases where I do not endorse either side of a divide between aspects of the dominant paradigm, employing each to attack the other, in order to divide and conquer the dominant class instead of giving it a monopoly on the use of that tactic, strikes me as sensible.” I agree - I do enjoy using the dominant class’ standards against them whenever possible. it’s a good thing, and belies their true motives, which of course are to exclude marginal voices and maintain the dominant system because of course it is to their benefit.
Sam - please do, give me more ammo, more to help me survive as they try to colonize my mind and get me to accept that the dominant system is legit and not built on the backs of those who are marginalized and oppressed and forgotten and erased and silenced.
Tracey - thanks, great criticisms. I too am concerned about those experiencing multiple oppression. I guess they’d have to separate with whomever they feel most comfortable with - and I’m sure if it was a really viable option they could find enough folks who are oppressed in the same kinds of ways to get off the farm with. it’s more about like-mindedness than anything, for me.
but yes, I am beginning to think that some degree of separatism is completely necessary for survival, as well as for ultimately bringing the dominant system down. when alternative movements become strong enough, it forces the dominant system to change, and that is a good thing.
Dewey - personal experience is almost always welcome (except when it’s full of blinding privilege and used as a tool for oppression-denial)!!! thanks for sharing. I think a commune would be AWESOME. good for you!!!
DBB - ah jeez. see, the idea isn’t to set up communities so that the mainstream can gain data and do studies. the idea is to get the fuck out of dodge, say a big up yours to the establishment, and try to sort shit out without interference, without all the power dynamics. the idea is to make survival more possible, because the framework isn’t based on models of hierarchy and oppression. it’s about generating knowledge from a new and different location, instead of from one that is full of pitfalls and asserts that it is objective even when objectivity is impossible without acknowledging one’s social location. it’s not an experiement I’m talking about. I’m talking about a way to create alternatives to oppression, alternatives to marginalization. I’m talking about giving people a better option than living with someone’s boot on their neck for their whole life. I’m talking about giving people a voice, a say in the very framework of their existence instead of forcing them to live by rules they had no hand in making and no way to escape and that give them no benefit. it’s about struggling together - not providing fodder for mainstream research.
girasophist - good point. it’s not more data we need. because there’s tons of data. it’s a matter of how that data is given uptake, or not. it’s about using a system of knowledge validation that inherently protects and enshrines the cultural discourse of the dominant class and system. what we need is a new system, not more data.
Vera, Scarred - hee hee!
Chrissy - “being able to leave the dominant culture at will and to find occasional refuge in other communities is a necessity for the oppressed, and that doing so will better provide those groups with confidence, the education, and the strength needed to put up a proper fight.”
thanks for totally understanding what I was getting at. excellent! and congrats on your own life ‘off the grid’. sounds like fun!
stixzz - yep, this is a concern. I don’t really think that complete and utter separatism is possible. but separatism as much as is possible is really the goal. and I think that is one that can be reached, with enough perseverance and gumption and sacrifice. just maybe.
BTW, how about those crazy separatists on LOST? is that show jsut a big statement for (or against) separatism? hmmmm….
Please don’t go into any detail into the happenings at lost! I’ve only seen it as far as nearly at the end of the second series, and its my favourite programme in the world BAR NONE! (actually, you need to be a bit of a hermit to escape information about whats going on there!)
Apart from lost my favourite seperatists have to be the nazerines/zealots in Qumran where the dead sea scrolls came from. Whilst they had thier hardcore people that lived there completly seperate from society, they also had people that would stay for a bit to get away from the dominant modes of thought, and then go forth into mainstream society and deal with the issues that they thought were of detriment to society. I also liked how they were not sucking up to the romans like all the other dominant relgious groups of the time and subsequent to them did!
I’m sorry, I let my eagerness to see the results of separatism override acknowledging that you are not talking about an experiment, but making a totally separate society. I think that is a cool idea in itself. I’d just be very curious to see how various separatist societies (separated for various different reasons) would turn out after a few decades. I think that would be fascinating.
And good point about Lost. I’ll avoid spoilers, but it is interesting that there seems to be not one, but four or even five separate groups there (well, at least at one point there was).
This brings to mind another bit of fiction, Stephen King’s The Stand. That isn’t about separatism, but it is about an entire society, the entire world, having society collapse and then the reformation of society (two different ones) in two different areas based on two different philosophies. I think that society destruction and building aspect is what made me enjoy the book more than most of his (well, ok, I haven’t read many Stephen King books).
And we can’t forget “Lord of the Flies.” Another fascinating book to read about culture is “Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors” by Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan. It actually focuses mostly on chimpanzee and bonobos (pygmy chimpanzees) and how their societies operate in comparison with our own, including hierarchies, sexuality, etc.
DBB - thanks.
see, with LOTF, the problem there was the imported model of hierarchy and dominance. it wasn’t different from the mainstream to begin with - it jsut adopted the mainstream dominance model and framework and worked within that.
I’m fond of the notion of intentional community in general. And I do like my women-only spaces and my women friends.
On the other hand…I like my men friends a lot too. And personally, I’ve found that separatist attitudes sometimes lead to a different, more insidious kind of sexism…I don’t mean towards men, but hostility towards women who are *perceived* to have “sold out”….for reasons ranging from being too conventionally “feminine” in looks and dress and interests, to not being lesbian enough. Among the particular people I am thinking of, biphobia abounded.
I’m speaking of the down side of my personal encounters with the idea as espoused by particular individuals, and none of that says anything about what separatism *could* do. I think it has uses, as long as people who choose that route don’t declare themselves the One True Feminists (which historically they have been a bit wont to do). I also think that, short of going off in the woods entirely, you can get a lot personally out of spending a lot of time in space reserved for women…socially, physically, and intellectually. Joining a women’s group, or spending a whole year reading only women authors, or…you name it.
hi Sara - thanks so much for your contribution! Yes, I too hate the high horse that some folks like to jump onto in regards to calling themselves “real feminists” and denouncing anyone who doesn’t agree with them as “not feminists”. don’t like it one bit. If women are a heterogenous group, then how can feminists NOT be?
Cassandra has an interesting post related to this up from last week:
http://cassandrasays.blogspot.com/2007/05/some-thoughts-about-women-only-spaces.html