heads up y’all
August 28, 2007 by thinking girl
Aulelia hipped me to this one: an interview with hip-hop producer Palow Da Don, in which he calles himself “King of the White Girls” and talks about how submissive white women are, how uppity black women are, and how he prefers a woman who knows her place in the “divine order” of things.
AllHipHop.com: Now, you call yourself the “King of All White Girls.” Elaborate on that for me.
Polow Da Don: Just the “King of the White Girls.” I ain’t self proclaimed but I run with it. [Laughs] There was a stage in my life where I went crazy with dating white women. I have nothing against black women, but they’re raised differently. White women are raised to respect and serve their men. Black women are taught to question [their men]. Black women look at submission as being weak. White women look at submission as being a woman. And anyone who has a problem with this statement is ignorant. Just look at the divine order; it goes man, woman, child.
mmmm. if you can stomach reading this idiot’s incoherent misogynistic and racist bullshit, and the equally idiotic comments on the article, here’s the link.
I don’t know about y’all, but I am utterly disgusted with this asshole. Black women are too hard to control because they aren’t submissive? so avoid them, because they challenge the “divine order”? and your fucking male privilege? And white women are better because we’re submissive? we define ourselves as women by being submissive?
give me a fucking break.
do I look submissive to you? I didn’t think so.
Why the man is hating on black women I have no clue. Black women are not a monolith. When can people actually get treated like individuals? hmm? when? instead of all the same as one another? because we’re not all the same. Not black women, not white women, not women. period.
just because he has had better luck dominating the white women he has met than he has had dominating the black women he has met doesn’t mean he gets to make broad generalizations about either group of women. Man’s not looking for a partner. not in any sense of that word. Man’s looking for a fucking servant, someone he can dominate and control. Misogynist motherFUCKER!
ok, that’s my 5 minute rant for the day. gotta run, more packing to do!
some of those group hip hop blogs have misogynist bloggers.
people always blame women of color.
Monolith No
True enough to support as stereo type … Maybe
He’s still a Jerk
Actually if you read it carefully, he didn’t really say anything negative about Black women. He may have thought that he did, but he really didn’t. Saying that black women “question their men” and see submission as being weak, well he mighthave thought he was being insulting, but he merely showed the prudence of such an approach
claiming that he’s “king” of people is so offensive in itself.
This man has a sickness: it’s misogynistic control addiction. Too bad he’s too chicken to face it!
And Donna, I’m seconding what you say–people **always** blame women of color. It’s evil, and I’m tired of it.
Well seeing how the hip hop world has always been such a bastion of women’s equality, this really does come as quite a shock to me.
Well seeing how the hip hop world has always been such a bastion of women’s equality, this really does come as quite a shock to me.
Hiphop is not any more misogynistic than any other genre of popular music such as rock or pop, so spare us your snide remarks
Oh shit! KYASSETT just got pwn3d! That’ll teach that bastard to pull his snide shit around here.
In other news, we can all relax and forget about pointing out the misogyny in hip hop music since the other genres are “just as bad.” Which is good, because that really frees up my day.
hmmmm. while I agree that other forms of music are also misogynistic, namely because our entire SOCIETY is misogynistic, pop and rock don’t make such liberal use of the words “bitch” and “ho” as does rap/hip hop. Is that indicative of a greater level of misogyny? I don’t know, but it seems like it’s at the very least a bit more overt.
but yes, the culture of rock and pop and country and hip hop and rap is all misogynistic, because of course, these are cultural artefacts, expressions of the culture in which we live. And, we live under a patriarchy.
White women are raised to respect and serve their men. Black women are taught to question their men.
Usually, it’s the other way around, from the white men’s perspective. White women feminists question white men, black women serve black men. Either way, all races like to blame women of their own race. Men of different races have different perspectives on women of their race but they tend to be wrong about women in general.
Black women look at submission as being weak. White women look at submission as being a woman.
Usually, it’s the other way around from white men’s perspective. As usual, men of all races are wrong about women.
And anyone who has a problem with this statement is ignorant. Just look at the divine order; it goes man, woman, child.
This is sexist.
@ Lloyd Webber — I disagree with you on one part: he was being rude about black women. He clearly has a lot of self-hatred issues which he needs to deal with. Black girls don’t need to bear the brunt of his crap. However, I do agree that all forms of music are misogynistic. I don’t like the way everyone always blames hip-hop. And I would barely describe the crap Polow makes as ”hip-hop”. Tribe Called Quest is hip hop, not ”Whatever You Like” crap.
“Usually, it’s the other way around, from the white men’s perspective. White women feminists question white men, black women serve black men. Either way, all races like to blame women of their own race. Men of different races have different perspectives on women of their race but they tend to be wrong about women in general.”
There’s a disturbing phenomenon I’ve observed that many men of *every* race and/or ethnic group/nationality do: use women of other groups to shame their own. For example, white American men will frequently attempt to shame and debase white American women by telling us how we’re no good and that they’re going to bypass us in favor of the “more submissive” Asian/Russian/Latin American women. Hell, there’s even businesses that cater to *that* misogynistic bullshit. As we’ve seen above, we have Palow Da Don attempt to shame women of his own race by using *us* white women as “examples” of submission. I read one of Solzhenitzyn’s novels, “Cancer Ward,” where some Russian men were talking amongst themselves and one of them said that German women were properly submissive to their men, unlike the no-good Russian women who didn’t know their place. And so on. And so forth.
I think what a **good** response would be, the next time some ignorant butthead uses a different group of women in an attempt to shame the women of his *own* group into submission, is for the “positive” example group of women to get up and get in the face of the offending male and tell him–point-blank and **very** nastily, NOT IN OUR NAME, YOU DON’T, YOU MISOGYNISTIC PIG!!
I get **very** tired of the misogyny. VERY tired.
I agree that other forms of music are also misogynistic, namely because our entire SOCIETY is misogynistic, pop and rock don’t make such liberal use of the words “bitch” and “ho” as does rap/hip hop. Is that indicative of a greater level of misogyny? I don’t know, but it seems like it’s at the very least a bit more overt.
Right. *Runs and hides* *Definitely runs and hides!”
Scarred, men who go to Latin America/Ukraine/Asia for more submissive wives are usually politically conservative, MRAs, Nice Guys and the like. They don’t realize they are politically conservative in this sense and blame Hollywood, liberalism and feminism. They need to change their thinking but most don’t realize this thinking is wrong. What’s terrible is these women are usually poor which sets up an unequal relationship.
Long story short, feminism is the answer. Everywhere.
Yet another reason to put the Bible next to The Odyssey in the “fiction” section of the bookstore.
“I get **very** tired of the misogyny. VERY tired.”
I’ll echo that one. Once you put on your feminist-tinted glasses, it’s impossible to ever take them off. Seemingly harmless everyday male behaviour appears glaringly obvious and highly offensive to me.
Taking that on every day and making a point of addressing it every time I see it is very tiring.
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Music is an issue that I have a lot of inner conflict over, because I’m a serious music fan and music, both recorded and live, is an important part of life for me.
Yet I see that modern music stems from the culture of patriarchy, and it isn’t only rap and hip hop; the misogyny is there in all genres, and is by it’s nature, patriarchal.
It’s men on pedestals, asserting their power and authority with their instruments, while groups of girls look up and worship.
Even in classical music, there are no great female composers. Go back even further to the ancient tribes. Aboriginal women are traditionally excluded from taking part in corroboree or playing the didgeridoo.
As a music lover it’s really hard for me to comes to terms with this knowledge.
I agree that the lyrical aspect of rap and hip hip is sometimes more blatant than in other genres, or seems to be. That’s because the words are mostly spoken rather than sung, so they’re easier to understand.
But when I listen closely to rock and metal, it’s there also. Watching local live bands is something I do most weekends.
It wasn’t that long ago that I made a show of walking out on a band when the singer introduced a song as being about “picking up chicks and f***ing the **** out of them”.
Which takes me back to my earlier comment about standing up to the misogyny every single time it’s in your face. It’s bloody tiring, and makes me appear a whinger, but I feel I have to do it, and encourage other women to do it too.
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That was an interesting point about men using women of other cultural groups to shame the women from their own.
I remember years ago, men here singing the praises of Asian women because of their “loyalty and submissiveness”. The mail order bride industry flourished here as I’m assuming it did in other parts of the world.
In a climate of female revolution (70s) men may have seen it as a way to counter the changes that were taking place under their noses.
“If white western women won’t do as we say then we’ll just go elsewhere and find women who are even more oppressed because of racial prejudice and cultural practices, to push around. That will teach them”
In hindsight, I wonder if that’s what that was all about. The women who came here under those circumstances were grateful to escape their homelands. Men liked to feel that these poor women were indebted to them in some way; it boosted their egos and helped them to assert power in a time when they first felt threatened.
Just a few thoughts there.
overtness, yes, like the whole discussion about overtness of street harrassment versus more subtle office harrassment. mainstream white feminism has tackled structural inequality including sexual harrassment on the job. remember the 80s? sexual harrassment was a huge topic then. this is definitely my week to run and hide.
That was an interesting point about men using women of other cultural groups to shame the women from their own.
Men liked to feel that these poor women were indebted to them in some way; it boosted their egos and helped them to assert power in a time when they first felt threatened.
americans are too stupid to realize they should change their thinking. that’s never an option to men, is it?
“Scarred, men who go to Latin America/Ukraine/Asia for more submissive wives are usually politically conservative, MRAs, Nice Guys and the like. They don’t realize they are politically conservative in this sense and blame Hollywood, liberalism and feminism. They need to change their thinking but most don’t realize this thinking is wrong. What’s terrible is these women are usually poor which sets up an unequal relationship.”
Amen to this!! Unfortunately, one hell of a lot of American men **think** this way. Not all…and fortunately, there seems to be a growing awareness among American men that they’ve been sold a terrible bill of goods promising them power but in actuality is a bullies’ credo. Unfortunately, some to many of them no longer care–if they ever did–and are now singing the bully song.
I have never understood the erroneous premise that says that if you force someone to their knees, you grow magically in stature. NEVER understood that mentality…
Working and middle class men are disillusioned by a bad economy which has nothing to do with feminism. Their blame of “Ameriskanks” is misguided. It’s always about money. Then they find poor, “submissive” women elsewhere. They’re sick in the head.
more on overtness or what is noticeable. for some some national crime data, people are asked how they were victimized and they tend to remember overt victimization not white collar crime. they are much more likely to be victimized by white collar crime but that’s not the crime they remember.
back to feminism, it has taken on structural issues and sexual harrassment on the job but is more hesitant to talk about street harrassment or commercial rap because it will be racist and appear racist. but really, all forms of sexism are fair game although whites are much less qualified to discuss it correctly.
Not only are they more likely to be victimized by white collar crime, but the last I heard, white collar crime costs the nation more in dollars than all other crime combined. You’re talking about all the money that is swiped, lost wages, lost productivity, lost jobs, lost benefits, etc, etc. All those things add up. And when a company goes under because of corrupt leadership, who suffers? Not that CEO or the CFO- they get all kinds of crazy severence packages and bonuses and they’re almost certain to get another high paying six figure position somewhere else- it’s the people doing the grunt work that get the shaft. They’re the ones who end up out of work with nothing to show for gods know how many years of service.
It’s all effed up.
“Working and middle class men are disillusioned by a bad economy which has nothing to do with feminism. Their blame of “Ameriskanks” is misguided. It’s always about money. Then they find poor, “submissive” women elsewhere. They’re sick in the head.”
Thank you for saying this. I needed to hear this. I think there’s a “new,” “respectable” bigotry out there, and it’s about targeting American women. “Ameriskanks.” Yeah, that’s the new slur-word in some ways…Never thought I’d see the day that I was despised for simply being an *American woman.* I should have seen it coming, though, when feminism achieved a great deal of mainstream thought, if not acceptance…
“back to feminism, it has taken on structural issues and sexual harrassment on the job but is more hesitant to talk about street harrassment or commercial rap because it will be racist and appear racist. but really, all forms of sexism are fair game although whites are much less qualified to discuss it correctly.”
This is true. I know *I* get real hesitant to discuss it…although I’ve been known to give street harassers hell mujer a mano.
These men don’t know any better.
Whites usually criticize commerical rap wrong because it’s mostly white execs and consumers’ fault but self-hating musicians and video dancers should cut it out.
The National Crime Victimization Survey was based on heuristic evidence (might be the wrong word. I read about this a couple years ago) meaning participants remembered assault, burglary, motor vehicle theft and robbery but not larceny. The flawed Survey was also redesigned in 1994 to include rape and domestic violence.
“Whites usually criticize commerical rap wrong because it’s mostly white execs and consumers’ fault but self-hating musicians and video dancers should cut it out.”
Actually, you’ve got a good point…I haven’t paid much attention, but I had heard that in reality, there were more white suburban consumers of commercial rap than any other group. That might *explain* a few things!!
mmhm. I’ve read that too, that the biggest fans of rap are young white men. which is disturbing on so many levels… like why do these young white men enjoy this message so much? because of the overt misogyny and their own feelings of their slipping social status as attached to their male privilege? because there is some sick satisfaction in seeing black women denigrated so badly in videos and lyrics? because there is some sick satisfaction in seeing black men glorifying violence against each other, evading responsibility, living a life separate from and subjugated by the mainstream, and looking like fools with their gold teeth and blinged out accessories?
how many young white men are buying political rap and hip hop, the message of which is black empowerment and respect? my guess is not so much as are buying the other shit.
I do feel somewhat uncomfortable as a white person criticizing hip hop, but you know, I still want to know some answers to these questions. I don’t think it’s completely out of line for a white person to criticize what SOME black people are doing, and I certainly realize that not all hip hop and rap is the same. I just don’t believe that hip hop and rap (mainstream) is representative of the black community as a whole, or black culture.
what do you all think?
Hip hop was fine until white record execs and consumers co-opted and corrupted it. I found this WaPo article on Racialicious:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702048.html
according to a 2001 study by the Department of Health and Human Services, the leading killer of African Americans ages 15 to 34 is homicide. It may also help explain why you’ll seldom hear politicians talking about another awful statistic: According to the same study, African Americans are five times more likely than whites to be victims of homicide.
Many rap songs use the “N-word” a dozen times or more. But I can count on two hands the number of times I’ve heard the words “whitey” or “cracker” in rap music.
I also wonder what would happen if rap artists started talking about selling dope in the suburbs, or shooting white people or beating down white men. Would rap’s comfortable white fans continue to consume it? I suspect the record companies wouldn’t even sell it.