Dear misogynists -
here it is:
I’m tired of holding your fucking hand, being sweet and nice and understanding, calmly explaining things of a feminist nature with patience, giving you the benefit of the doubt. I’m tired of letting you get away with comments, quietly simmering, feeling the pressure build up inside me. I’m tired of letting you define the terms, twist my words to use against me, read unintended meaning into what is said. I’m tired of your fucking ‘counter-examples’ that are meant to be some kind of silver bullet to the fact that things have been this way for thousands of years in the great majority. I’m tired of taking care of you in a discussion where you begin by saying, “so, you want to debate feminism with ME, do you?” (Answer: feminism is not up for debate, asshole.) I’m tired of watching you pack up your toys and go home when you can’t “win your point” and shut me up or down, and I’m tired of being blamed for your inadequate arguing skills and the fact that you know you’re wrong and if you can’t win you don’t wanna play. I’m tired of being accused of being a “wet blanket,” a “stick in the mud,” “humourless,” and being unable to take either a joke or a compliment. I’m tired of having my and other women’s experiences of misogyny in action made light of, taken over or sidelined by, and compared to men’s experiences of the world that have nothing to do with the discussion, in order to make some kind of point that “shit happens to everyone, it has nothing to do with your gender, stop whining about sexism, you’re bringing it upon yourself by seeing it everywhere, if you didn’t look so hard you’d see that it was something else, you’re reading too much into it.”
sick and fucking tired, I am.
because the thing is, the fact that you are arguing about it means you so aren’t even there yet, with enough internalization of basic feminist principles, to even have such a discussion with me. I am not debating the basics of feminism. I am not questioning the validity of feminism as a system of thought or a framework for looking at the world. I am not suddenly going to give up on feminism because you think you’ve found a brilliant counter-argument to support your misogyny (like “not all guys are like that! you’re pigeon-holing all men! that’s just as sexist as what you’re complaining about!”).
the truth is, the guys who get it, don’t argue about it. And they don’t get so riled up by feminist theory, discussion, etc. that they freak out whenever a feminist has something negative to say about men in general or even just one specific man who has, oh say, chased and threatened her in the street. Because they know, I’m not talking about them.
so, stop trying to make me feel bad because I’m making you upset to be reminded that your privilege is unearned and undeserved, even as you’re using it like a club over my head. I’m not the one who should feel bad about that. I don’t have to worry about your feelings, your ego, your pride, whatever – you clearly aren’t worried about me and mine. In fact, I’d say your entire purpose in discussions like these is to “bring me down a notch,” yes?
Stop casting me in some role of male caretaker – I’m nobody’s mother, nobody’s nursemaid, and nobody’s wife. I get no benefit, emotional or otherwise, from taking care of you. Demanding that I do so is reinforcing the gendered roles that have me so infuriated to begin with! This is not about social graces – it’s about demanding that even during a discussion about sexism, I have to play a gendered role that necessarily means giving way to you.
so, don’t tell me to be “reasonable” (as opposed to emotional? which is so bad, right?). based on thousands of years of evidence, I think I am being pretty fucking reasonable, actually, in analyzing the world in the way that I do and responding to it in the way that I do. I’d prefer to be pleasantly surprised by a non-sexist man than unpleasantly surprised by a misogynist.
This is how we survive. and yeah, it is that serious.
so, fuck you. holding your hand, taking care of your ego, being a “nice lady,” giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re one of the few men I have ever met in my entire life that isn’t sexist, is not my fucking job. Sometimes, I’m going to tear you a new one. Sometimes, I’m going to give you a look of utter disgust, scoff at you, and turn and walk away because that day I refuse to engage with assholes. Sometimes, I’m going to school you with a stream of theory and not stop to explain the basic principles because you should already know them. Sometimes, I’m going to have more patience and answer your inane questions. But, no way am I going to assume some kind of caretaker position for you and your ego, or avoid pointing out your misogynist behaviour, or break my analysis of the world into easy to digest morsels for you. I’m no babysitter; I don’t cut anyone’s meat for them. I’m no nursemaid; I don’t repair fractured egos. I’m no teacher; I don’t have to instruct you on a gotdam thing. You wanna know about feminism? you wanna have a meaningful discussion about feminism? you wanna be one of the few men I’ve met in my life that aren’t sexist patriarchs? start by not asking me to do your work for you. go to a library. catch up with the rest of the class. think long and hard about it – you’re not just studying history, you’re studying a living body of work that reflects the lives of women, today, right now. set down your macho armor and talk to women about what it’s like to be a woman in this world. think about the role you play in that world, and start by assuming that you are sexist, and you do benefit from male dominance. because you do, whether you want to admit it or not. admit it. and move on.
the end.
Thank you so much for this! I’ve been having a similar problem and you’ve just given me a lot to think about. The sad thing is that I was starting to doubt myself… So thank you.
Well I surley can’t blame you for this post. You’ve taken more than enough to warrant it. Letting it out is also sometimes a good thing.
I am glad you are posting again, it seemed like you dropped of the radar. I really don’t like the idea of thinking Girl becoming Hunkering Girl, not the best posture for mental health.
So let em have it and we’ll cook some popcorn…
..Always like popcorn with action scenes.
Steve
sestina – thanks for commenting. glad to be of assistance. don’t doubt yourself, that’s exactly what they want.
Steve – thanks buddy. not to worry, I’m not hunkering, I’m just busy with school and socializing!
Hear, hear!
now, imagine alladat AND you’re BLACK!
Lawdhavemercy!!
I feel you, tho.
Socializing? In law school? Perish the thought! (That you’d have time…) But I jest. You need something to take the pressure off. I’m curious to see your impressions of law school, though you may not have that fully digested until after you get back your first exams.
THAT was awesome. I’m in college and at the University I go to, we’ve been having some issues with men who seem to need everything spelled out to them and say assy things while simultaneously saying that “no all men are bad…”
…yeah, I kind of needed to see I wasn’t alone with these thoughts.
thanks folks.
FS – I knew you would feel me on this one. thanks for the solidarity my friend. I owe you an email…
DBB – yeah, I haven’t really had much time or the inclination really to post lately, much less about school. but, so far so good – great people, interesting readings, and not so many megalomaniacs as I thought there would be. I really am not at all stressed out by school, have interesting extra-curricular projects, and a whole new slew of cool friends that I can’t wait to spend lots of time getting to know.
Genevieve – mmmm, there’ve been some problems here in the city too , at one of the other universities. and, four boys were arrested for sexually assaulting a group of girls at a junior high school the other day. their mamas were on TV crying about it, how their sons couldn’t have possibly done anything like that.
yeah, right. cause misogyny isn’t pervasive and ubiquitous or anything.
you’re not alone.
I hear your words in a variety of ways. It is sad that you face often idiotic “challenges” that attempt to make you defensive. It is sad that you are obviously affected and at least on some level hurt by some of what you face (though most understandable).
It is good that you don’t let the crap get in the way of affirming yourself and your beliefs as well as supporting many others.
It is pathetic that some can feel so threatened by your words and seemingly give you so much power as a result of their fears.
It is “reality” in that you being young and evidently “attractive” and not trying to make yourself look “demure” will draw men to think you fair game for their attempts at sexual/gender control of you and other women.
It is naive to think that if you would change your approach you would somehow be free of Sexism and its affects on your (and our lives).
I appreciate your writing and even when I disagree with you, I respect your honesty and integrity.
I hope that you will increasingly find ways to move in positive ways such as perhaps finding good allies in Toronto which may help you be hurt less and grow more.
Thanks!
Solidarity, sister!!
You tell’em!
THE most annoying thing… is that when you coolly and calmly enumerate all the various pieces of crap that you’ve had to take, they just nod, and whisper amongst themselves “PMT”.
completely agree!!
I wrote a science fiction novel about a slightly alternate reproductive physiology and its impact on culture (convenience), making many of these same points. You might find it interesting. In Chaos and Reunion, our defiance is best exemplified in the tenets of the braashanil, a movement of women dedicated to fighting for female freedom. The book is being posted as episodes for free at the website above.
I know some wonderful men and some wonderful women. I also know some really attitudinally offensive men and some equally attudinally offensive women.
I always feel a little sad for my Sisters who hold the view that “ALL” men ….(fill in the blanks…..
Working in Womens shelters for many years I came across the full gamut of behaviours in both genders and have equally been appalled at some of the attitudes women hold towards men as I have encountered men holding toward women.
I even wrote a piece about it once…
http://carolom.wordpress.com/2007/03/24/sistersour-brothers-are-not-all-to-blame/
thanks for the comments and solidarity folks!
Carol – not too sure how to respond to your comment. sounds like you’re accusing me of being a man-hater. can’t get on board with that program. an analysis that recognizes the historic and ongoing oppression women face, at the hands of and to the benefit of men-as-a-group, doesn’t automatically make someone a man-hater. it’s not women who are oppressing ourselves. men have historically had and continue to have the balance of power in society, so are the ones making up and enforcing the rules, to benefit themselves.
and of course, there is no such thing as reverse sexism. that would involve women-as-a-class having enough social power over men-as-a-class to impose systemic and instutitionalized domination on them. which of course, is not the case.
I think it’s important to realize that criticism of men-as-a-group is not necessarily criticism of men-as-individuals. that’s a very common mistake I’ve seen men and women alike make in response to feminism. the fact is that the system is set up so as to benefit men, and men generally experience that system as satisfactory, so have no reason to question it… much less do anything to help change it to a more equitable system.
Men are victims too. The problem is that many of our social structures were set up – or rather, evolved – for a male-only environment. The Patriarchy exists, but not so much as a conscious construct, as an inevitable outgrowth of a male-only workforce.
That worked pretty well when men were the breadwinners – the hunters – and women were the homemakers – the gatherers. Except it all got out of hand, the normal balances in un-civilised societies did not apply in an industrial context.
So we have ended up with unhappy women, whose talents have been wasted, and unhappy men, slaving for 50,70, or even 100 hours a week, actually working themselves to death in a “Red Queen’s Race” of unbridled competitiveness.
Some of the better, and more successful, post-industrialist commercial entities realise this. They realise that two people, each working 20-30 hours a week, with time available to have a life after work, are more efficient than one working 80 hours. Commercial realities mean that the two both get half the salary of the one, but they have equal opportunities for promotion in the organisation.
Those who want to work till they drop should be allowed to, but those who have “gotten a Life” with involvement in areas outside work are better, more efficient employees. Happier too, of course.
This needs a change of culture though: one that recognises the need for childcare, for both maternity and paternity leave, and one which gets away from the crazy unbridled testosterone-fueled race to oblivion and early death that many men – and women who “buy into the system” – face.
It will happen anyway – is happening – as the heartless process of competition and evolution weeds out those organisations that cannot evolve in response to having women in the workforce. But we should hurry it up a bit where we can, pointing out the fact that in a post-industrial socuety, Human Resources are the only resources a commercial enterprise really has.
Zoe – i can’t buy into your plan, sorry. the nuclear family construct is itself kind of fucked up and full of gendered bullshit, because of course, it all happens within the framework of patriarchy. so the “two people working less” model still leaves out single parents, single people in general, and people who exist in other non-traditional models for their families/communities/lives, and still leaves in place oppressive gender structures and roles within the family unit.
the only way to get rid of these problems is to get rid of patriarchy itself. but, both individual men and men-as-a-class have too much invested in the current system, as well as the power to make or break such changes. so it’s unlikely.
“that they freak out whenever a feminist has something negative to say about men in general”
I’ve noticed many groups have this problem.
Even feminists aren’t particularly fond of negative statements made about feminists in general.
This doesn’t help (much) alleviate frustration IRL, but I find that shuffling men (or people of other genders!) who act this way off to Feminism101 to be helpful, if not for them, for my own sanity…it can be a band-aid solution, of course, and I wonder about how much it can change the world, but it sometimes is the best solution for the moment where the frustration is unbearable (or, even when the frustration is bearable, but unwanted).
I didn’t make myself clear: the “2 people working less” model did not imply that the two were both from the same family, or even on the same continent. One woman in Singapore working 5 hours a day, and one man in Denmark working similar hours at the same job, can do a lot more productive work over a 24 hour period than one 15-hour-a-day Sarrariman and his housebound female slave in Japan.
Single people have a right to a life outside work too, should they want that. Single parents should not have to face the choice of abandoning career or abandoning children.
The two (or more)-parent family is, from the evidence, better for the children than a single parent one. There’s no evidence though that the parents have to be of different sexes. Perhaps this situation might change with more workplace flexibility, empowering single parents, but I really don’t know.
As for Patriarchy, it’s insidious, and ubiquitous. The problem there is that men are, in general, blind to their own privilege, and the degree of oppression that women suffer. Educate them, let them know just what they’re doing wrong, and the good ones will come round.
Not that’s the majority.
I’m more hopeful than you, possibly because I was born in a very different, and far worse, world. The situation of women in the UK in the late 50s and early 60s was closer to that of women in Saudi today, rather than Australia. I have seen progress because of irresistible natural forces making the Patriarchy largely obsolete.
OK, so the situation remains wholly unacceptable, and no matter what the progress, there’s still a lot of rubbish we have to get rid of. You don’t have to go to 3rd world countries to see it either. Women still can’t vote in some cantons of Switzerland.
But don’t despair, progress may be hastened or retarded, but it’s inevitable anyway. What we have to do is make sure it comes sooner, not later.
thanks for that clarification, Zoe. now I can get on board!
I’m not that pessimistic!
badteeth – the difference being that typically, negative things said about feminists as a group are not true.
so the outrage is justified.
jeffliveshere – do note the link at the top of this blog to Feminism 101. I’m a big supporter of that project. that’s the thing: there are lots of different roles to play within the feminist movement, and it’s a beautiful thing that there are people who really feel called to do outreach education to new feminists, questioning potential feminists, and others who do not understand but who have an open mind. I sort of feel like my role in that goal is lessening, and the things I’m more interested in discussing are those for which a basic understanding and acceptance of feminism is required.
Hi Thinking Girl,
Hope school is treating you well. I read this post and whole heartedly agree. Not sure if there is any angle I could offer that hasn’t already been covered on so many different sites, including by you in this post.
I came by, hope this isn’t considered trolling…
I wanted to invite you when you can to read and to perhaps weigh in on a post I wrote about female genital circumcision.
And once more, for whatever a comment from me would be worth at this particular juncture in my blogging career
, definitely a big NO to holding men’s hands.
darkdaughta – hi yourself! thansk for dropping by, and for your comment. it really is enough already, with the hand holding demands.
school’s alright, so far so good. nice new people, good readings, and some actual sensitivity to issues of socila justice.
I’ll be over to read your post shortly.
A-fucking-men!
I’m feeling you on so many levels here.
And this:
“feminism is not up for debate, asshole.”
You’ll please forgive me for stealing this line and using it in various incarnations all over the internets.
..based on thousands of years of evidence, I think I am being pretty fucking reasonable, actually, in analyzing the world in the way that I do and responding to it in the way that I do. I’d prefer to be pleasantly surprised by a non-sexist man than unpleasantly surprised by a misogynist. This is how we survive. and yeah, it is that serious.
oh mah god it’s like you’ve been up in my brain. not sure if you saw any of the little brouhaha a month or so ago on my blog where i linked to dizzy’s post along these same lines, but really – you start to think you’re going crazy – i’m not wrong, right? it really is this fucked up, and i am justified in being this mad?
it is. i am. thank you!
Kevin – nice to see you! thanks for the a-fucking-men! and yeehaw – quote me all you like.
kate.d. – oh yeah, I remember the dust-up. that was right before I moved and lost internet access for a while, or I probably would’ve jumped into the fray.
but see, those two likely would’ve been banned from my site a looooooooong time ago. i gots no patience left. cupboards are bare. and the store’s closed.
“Working in Womens shelters for many years I came across the full gamut of behaviours in both genders and have equally been appalled at some of the attitudes women hold towards men as I have encountered men holding toward women.”
I’ve worked in a women’s refuge myself and I find this statement appalling.
When a woman enters a refuge it’s because she has nowhere left to turn; she is at her weakest, psychologically, emotionally, physically and spiritually and financially. Sometimes she is there after enduring years abuse and violence. Sometimes it could be the fifth attempt to leave the perpetrator.
Given all this, would a bit of attitude toward the male gender not be surprising? Expected even?
In the interests of healing and empowering these women, it’s very important that we as workers allow them their anger and acknowledge the validity of it.
I’m so totally sick of this “but men are oppressed too” crap.
_________________________
“Even feminists aren’t particularly fond of negative statements made about feminists in general.”
This is because there is nothing negative about Feminism.
“‘Even feminists aren’t particularly fond of negative statements made about feminists in general.’
This is because there is nothing negative about Feminism.”
Even if your statement is true, that there is nothing negative about feminism, the statement was talking about negative statments about ‘feminists’ not ‘feminism’. While it is, of course, usually unfair to extrapolate the negative characteristics of an individual to the group that individual belongs to, that does not mean that that individual can’t be an asshat. Individual feminists can be asshats, the same as anyone else on the planet. And I think the point was, complaining about all feminists as asshats based on individual feminists being asshats is unfair and that feminists would not particularly like that sort of generalization (and rightly so).
DBB, I was just being flippant for my own amusement.
thanks femsoc.
It is amazing the things people will do and say to justify their own world-views. We face this with feminist issues, but it can also be applied to the culture at large…particularly with environmentalism. We can question this or that, but not the entire structure from which this insane lifestyle is based–one that continues to subjugate women and the natural world across the globe.
[...] Girl tells it like it is and reminds everyone that handholding is not an option and that “objectivity is a [...]
very nice
[...] debates about ‘militant feminism.’ What those debates truly are about is best explained here and [...]
hi- im new, never been to this site.but today, it was a bad day to be a woman. and my sister sent me this link. i dig it.
if you were there for my 30 min. explosion in the car on the way home, it would sound a lot like this….only louder.
but i really do dig it. thanks.
THANK YOU!!!!
Yeah, what you said.
that’s what’s up.
just say no to being a Cosmic Titty!
[...] The frustrations of an active feminist. From the Thinking Girl blog… [...]
remember, men may ignore a pretty girl’s opinion, but they never ignore a pretty girl with a bloody axe in her hand~!